Change of ownership

Discuss measuring an IOM and being a measurer

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James
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Change of ownership

Post by James » 09 May 2004, 22:54

Wonder if you can help me out?

Just bought a second hand IOM that came with a certificate, I filled in the "Change of ownership" section and sent it first class to:

MYA 1M Register
14 Greycot Road
Beckenham
Kent
BR3 1TA

This was around 3 weeks ago and as I hadn't heard anything I tried the email on the letter that came with the certificate:(jimvice@compuserve.com) but it just bounced back.

Have I sent it to the right place please?

Regards,

James

Ralph Knowles
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Post by Ralph Knowles » 10 May 2004, 03:25

James,

The MYA is run on an amateur basis, with all officials doing a power of work out of the goodness of their hearts, but not out of their pockets.
Little funds are available for postage, which is now very expensive. Do you want an expensive association, I think not.
I think a stamped addressed envelope would be appreciated and then your cert. will be returned by return. :D

Cheers

Ralph

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Post by Chairman » 10 May 2004, 09:39

In fairness to James, I made the same "error" a few years ago when I failed to include an SAE with a boat measurement form. Didn't hear anything for weeks, took me a while to establish the reason...
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James
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Joined:09 May 2004, 21:49

Change of ownership

Post by James » 10 May 2004, 14:46

Hi Ralph

Sincere apologies, by the tone of your response I seem to have touched a nerve, not my intention. I'm pretty sure there was nothing on the certificate that mentioned "stamped addressed envelopes" - if I'm wrong I will happily pay postage costs. I've paid up for my local club membership and was under the impression that some of this went to the MYA, but I'm obviously wrong.

All I really wanted to confirm was whether it had gone to the right address as it could have changed since that original certificate was issued and could be delayed for that reason. The email also bounced back and that made me think the address may have changed as well.

I'm totally new to this model yachting scene, having been a keen racer on my own J24 yacht until a bad back put a stop to it. Just finding my way!

Kind regards,

James

Roy Thompson
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Post by Roy Thompson » 10 May 2004, 17:04

Seems like a clear case of misunderstanding but it does highlight the need for MNAs/clubs/registrars etc to make it clear the exact proceedure, including any costs involved.
James, have you seen the flow diagram on 'How do I register/certify my IOM'? ( http://www.iomclass.org/Information/Mea ... suring.htm
see this part on the forum for link). Although it doesn't specifically mention how much or what you have to pay (since this varies from country to country), it does mention that the best place to start is your local club and that a recertification fee 'may be payable'.
Don't get put of by the bureaucracy! Sailing is about getting out there and having fun (and winning occasionaly helps too)!
Roy Thompson
"WE DON'T SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, WE SEE THINGS AS WE ARE" A.N.

James
Posts:5
Joined:09 May 2004, 21:49

Change of Ownership

Post by James » 10 May 2004, 18:33

Hi

Thanks for the reply.

Look, I'm a totally "by the book" person and I was just following the information I had.

I followed the instructions regarding change of ownership on the Measurement Certificate that came with my second hand boat, to the letter.

It simply asks for your Name, Signature & Address and just says after completion to "return this certificate to the certification authority", which is exactly what I did. There's no mention of including stamped addressed envelopes or any fees.

Then I went down to my local club and payed my membership fee and joining fee.

I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, but at no point, if you follow the right hand columns in the flow diagram, does it mention asking your local club for information - this only appears to be relevant if your registration number isn't valid. I don't know whether mine is valid or not yet and I expected to get this information back with the certificate. I'm none the wiser as to how much I should pay in the UK, if anything.

Can you, or can you point me in the direction of someone who can, tell me:

1. Do I need to pay for the return postage of my certificate? If so how much and I'll send it?

2. Do I have to pay a fee in the UK to the CA? If so how much and I'll send it?

I'm more than happy to pay any reasonable fees whatsoever - compared to their bigger brothers that I used to own and sail, it's an absolute bargain! :D

Thanks,

James

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Re: Change of Ownership

Post by Chairman » 10 May 2004, 19:26

James wrote:I followed the instructions regarding change of ownership on the Measurement Certificate that came with my second hand boat, to the letter
Hi James

Yup. And, as you say, no mention of SAE. When I asked about this a while back, my, ah, attention was drawn to the MYA year book, where it does say that an SAE is required. And, as you say, not very much help 'cos at that time I didn't have a year book, and would probably not have looked in it for this information even if I had...
Can you, or can you point me in the direction of someone who can ...
May I suggest an e-mail or a phone call to Jim Vice, the MYA IOM Registrar? (Contact details on the MYA Web site, http://www.mya-uk.org.uk/) Jim is a regular guy and I'm sure will understand your situation. He is, erm, pretty familar with this particular difficulty! I believe he would simply ask you to send him an SAE.
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James
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Change of Ownership

Post by James » 10 May 2004, 20:18

Hi Lester

Great stuff, emailed Jim Vice, offered to send SAE and asked if any other fees due - thanks for the information.

Fair Winds,

James

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Post by Greg Vasileff » 10 May 2004, 21:34

......... wow, postage must be expensive over there. This is funny stuff! :roll:
Greg V

Ralph Knowles
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Post by Ralph Knowles » 11 May 2004, 08:08

Hi again James,

Yes it did touch a nerve. I was caught out in the same way as Lester and yourself a couple of years ago. Having been full of enthusiam after buying my first IOM and raring to go, new to the club and unfamiliar with the 'Process', I waited for a few weeks for my cert. and only when a 'veteran' member of the MYA whispered in my ear, did I eventually become legal. It is unfortunate that beginners have this hassle as not every club has a spare handbook to dish out to a new member, this being the only place that the request is in print.

Cheers and good luck with your IOM

Ralph

James
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Joined:09 May 2004, 21:49

Change of Ownership

Post by James » 11 May 2004, 09:37

Hi Ralph

Thanks for the reply and encouragement - looking forward to racing very much.

Kind regards,

James

Roy Thompson
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Post by Roy Thompson » 11 May 2004, 10:43

Hi James,
I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, but at no point, if you follow the right hand columns in the flow diagram, does it mention asking your local club for information
Sorry James, but at the start/top of the page (How do I ...) it says: 'Remember, your local club is the best place start for advice...' This is important because in each country the way things are done is different and the guide I produced is exactly that, only a guide.

Following the right hand part of the flow diagram towards the bottom it says:
'...send to C.A. with fee#..' and even refers you to the relevant rule.

So, in fact both your points above are covered in the flow diagram. I know it can't cover every possible situation, but your particular type of case is common and was considered and incorporated. It took me quite a while to find out the exact processes that should be followed and I have tried to reflect as many of the possibilities in the diagram to make it as useful a guide as possible. If you (or anyone else) think it fails in this case I would be more than happy to modify it, although we must remember that in every country the fees are different. Here in ESP we don't have to pay for the certificate or recertification - lucky aren't we?

Anyway, less paperwork and more sailing, that's what I say.
Good luck with your new IOM.
Roy Thompson
"WE DON'T SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, WE SEE THINGS AS WE ARE" A.N.

Ralph Knowles
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Post by Ralph Knowles » 11 May 2004, 23:55

Hi Roy,

A small bit of clarification here I think.

In GBR also, no fees are required for any certification on new builds orowner change. All that is requested is a stamped addressed envilope, so that the work, which can be quite conciderable, can be halved, as Jim does not have to write addresses and find stamps for possibly fifty certificates of one sort or another in any week. And I would think that the number can only keep rising.

Cheers

Ralph

Roy Thompson
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Post by Roy Thompson » 12 May 2004, 17:32

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for the correction/info, this sort of thing is very useful for me (and other people?) to know. From all of this it is clear, as mentioned earlier, that the processes involved should be completely tranparent, so that newcomers (or seasoned sailors) can know exactly what is expected/needed when it comes to doing the paperwork.
I had hoped by now to have received a lot more information from the DMs about this type of thing, but unfortunately, and understandably, many of them are too busy with the day to day running of the class in their countries.
In GBR also, no fees are required for any certification on new builds orowner change
Does this mean also that measurers don't charge anything at all in GBR for measuring a boat, or just that your DM doesn't make any charge?
Cheers
Roy Thompson
"WE DON'T SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, WE SEE THINGS AS WE ARE" A.N.

Ralph Knowles
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Joined:23 Nov 2003, 22:51
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Post by Ralph Knowles » 12 May 2004, 21:29

Hi Roy,

As far as I know, in GBR, no fee is charged for measuring an IOM. Certainly in Scotland, that is the case. In GBR we have six District Senior Measurers. My SDM approached me to volunteer to be an accredited Official Measurer. I think this was due to the fact that I has recently built a Bantock KITE which measured OK at the first try. Now there are a large number of accredited OM's, at least one at each club, I would think. Therefore there should be no need for fees as travelling and time should be at a minimum. The DSM's oversee this work at arms length, usually holding a telephone, and are responsible for, and have to keep up to date with, the measurement rules of all the recognised classes in their district. Fortunately, in GBR, there are relatively few recognised classes, only five as far as I know. The 6m class look's after itself.
I hope this information is of help to you, even though it is from 'the shop floor'.

Cheers

Ralph

Roy Thompson
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Post by Roy Thompson » 13 May 2004, 13:20

Thanks for the info Ralph, just what I wanted to hear. The shop florr is where it happens, not in the MDs office!
To reciprocate, here in ESP, although we are are only 200 or so IOMs we only have 2 or 3 Official Measurers, very badly distributed geographically! Even so, we will try to do fundamental measurements during events which we travel to if anyone solicits them.
Cheers
Roy Thompson
"WE DON'T SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, WE SEE THINGS AS WE ARE" A.N.

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