Issues around the impending demise of the RSD

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Hiljoball
Posts: 271
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
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Issues around the impending demise of the RSD

Post by Hiljoball » 27 Mar 2009, 19:51

There is something VERY important going on and that is not being discussed sufficiently.


It appears that the ISAF wants to eliminate DIVISIONS from its structure. We fall under the RSD and so are affected.

I am not too concerned about the structure we fall into, however, buried in the documents is wording that suggests that we would have to register our boats with the ISAF (at a suggested cost of $30 - not sure if it is one-time or annual) and may have to pay dues to the ISAF.

My view is that such an item would kill 'official' RC Racing for many sailors. Many of us are retired and this is a shoe-string hobby. Yes, there are some wealthier sailors who can afford top equipment, travel to international regattas and to whom these fees may be trivial.

Here are links to two documents on the IOM site.


http://www.iomclass.org/exec/Future%20of%20RSD.pdf


http://www.iomclass.org/exec/Draft%20IR ... tionV4.pdf

It appears that the IOM class is large enough and complies with the regulations that we can apply to ISAF directly. However the background document says that the RM class needs some work, that the 10R needs a lot of work and the RA class does not comply.

There is text that suggests two parallel bodies, one for IOM and one for the other 3 international classes that would somehow maintain and agree on Appendix E.

There is lots to discuss here.
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

valpro
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Post by valpro » 27 Mar 2009, 21:33

Spot on! This is a fundamental change to our sport and which needs absolute clarity at this point. Of course ISAF will want to put a blue sticker on the boat and charge us for the privelege but only once. It's usually a percentage of the cost of a new boat and we need to know what the other classes are being charged. I think we could make a good case for a levy of 0.5% on our little flyers.
The only reason that the A class rules arent acceptable is that they were never changed to accommodate ERS and that's easily fixed.
What I would be far more concerned about is how the Officials of the IRCA get to be appointed because if its not by a vote from the classes involved then that doesnt accord with my idea of how a Class organisation is run. So lets have absolute clarity over the whole thing from the how and the why to the who and the what.
Val

Lester
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Re: Issues around the impending demise of the RSD

Post by Lester » 27 Mar 2009, 21:42

Certainly worth discussing.
Hiljoball wrote:we would have to register our boats with the ISAF (at a suggested cost of $30
A boat would not 'be registered with ISAF'. Nothing would change, the boat would be registered with the IOM NCA as it is now. The fee would be $5 more likely, and the NCA would pass that on to IOMICA, which in turn would pass it on to ISAF. The exact mechanism would need to be negotiated...
Future of RSD Discussion Document wrote:5. New boats provide an ISAF sticker fee
In each class, an ISAF fee is to be paid for each new boat built. It is likely that this would be something like GBP 5.

6. ISAF Annual Class Fee
Currently GBP 165.

7. Application fee
Each class should pay an application fee to ISAF. ISAF has indicated that this fee may be waived in the case of the existing ISAF-RSD classes.
The sticker fee, strictly speaking, would be for each boat which is registered for the first time, after the class obtains ISAF recognition. Then, IOMICA would pay annual dues of GBP 165 to ISAF just like every other ISAF class.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Hiljoball
Posts: 271
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
Location: CAN

Post by Hiljoball » 27 Mar 2009, 23:23

From Lester's post, it sounds like we would pay

1. A sticker fee to ISAF (about GBP5) for each new boat we build
2. A registration fee to our NCA of $5 (as we do today) for each new boat that we build or register . .but that money then flows through to the ISAF.
3. The IOM ICA pays an annual fee to ISAF - Where does the IOM ICA get its money to pay this? Does each NCA or National RC Sailing org have to pay the IOM ICA each year? (similar to the fee that used to be paid to the RSD?)
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

Lester
Posts: 611
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Post by Lester » 28 Mar 2009, 10:15

Hiljoball wrote:it sounds like we would pay

1. A sticker fee to ISAF (about GBP5) for each new boat we build
2. A registration fee to our NCA of $5 (as we do today) for each new boat that we build or register . .but that money then flows through to the ISAF.
Hi John
The money you pay to the NCA when you register your boat does not 'then flow through to ISAF'. Only the sticker fee will eventually get to ISAF.
3. The IOM ICA pays an annual fee to ISAF - Where does the IOM ICA get its money to pay this? Does each NCA or National RC Sailing org have to pay the IOM ICA each year? (similar to the fee that used to be paid to the RSD?)
Currently, IOM NCAs pay annual fees of zero to IOMICA, and this is likely to continue, since the current IOMICA budget easily accomodates a likely annual fee of GBP 165 to ISAF. IOMICA receives income from international events, and this results in a healthy bank balance.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Hiljoball
Posts: 271
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
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Post by Hiljoball » 28 Mar 2009, 15:05

What is the background and issues that lead to the IOM class joining ISAF on its own and the other three international classes forming the IRSCA to join ISAF?

Why does the IOM not just be part of the IRSCA to connect to the ISAF?

If ISAF wants each class to join on its own, then why the IRSCA? If the other three classes are not capable of joining in their own right, should they lose International status and move into the other category, which I think is called 'Recognised Class'.
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

Lester
Posts: 611
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Post by Lester » 28 Mar 2009, 21:20

Hiljoball wrote:What is the background and issues that lead to the IOM class joining ISAF on its own and the other three international classes forming the IRSCA to join ISAF?
The heart of the issue is that we are talking about the future of RSD.

At the moment, the RSD acts as the ICA for the three other international radio sailing classes, and the suggestion from the RSD PC is that IRSCA takes over this role.

Also at the moment, the RSD acts as the international authority for radio sailing with just one ICA which is affiliated (IOMICA), and when RSD disappears and hands this over to ISAF, it is up to IOMICA to decide whether to join IRSCA or stay independent.
If ISAF wants each class to join on its own, then why the IRSCA?
ISAF is happy for clases to group together under one or other class association if those classes wish to minimise administrative overhead. RSD, currently the ICA for the three other international radio sailing classes, proposes IRSCA as the new ICA for these three.
If the other three classes are not capable of joining in their own right, should they lose International status and move into the other category, which I think is called 'Recognised Class'.
The other classes may form whatever class associations they wish. Whether the other classes are capable of meeting the ISAF criteria for ISAF recognition, as the discussion document explains, depends upon the individual class concerned. I suppose it would be up to IRSCA to decide in consultation with their class members and ISAF when and how each class would seek ISAF status. I would expect M, A, and 10R owners would want to have something to say about it, and would suggest that IOM owners tread particularly lightly in appearing to tell others what to do with their classes.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Hiljoball
Posts: 271
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
Location: CAN

Post by Hiljoball » 29 Mar 2009, 19:12

Thanks Lester. I had not realised that the other three classes did not have their own ICAs.

So, if I understand correctly, there are three options for the IOM class.

1. Join the ISAF directly.
2. Join the IRSCA as a class or as an ICA and be affiliated with ISAF
3. Leave the ISAF and go our own way.

Each has its own pros and cons . . .

Is there a central issue, for example control over Appendix E or oversight on ratifying 'voted' class rule changes?
Last edited by Hiljoball on 30 Mar 2009, 00:15, edited 1 time in total.
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

Andy Stevenson
GBR NCA Officer
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 29 Mar 2009, 22:36

Hi John
  • 1. Join the ISAF directly.
    2. Join the IRSCA as a class or as an ICA and be affiliated with ISAF
    2[3]. Leave the ISAF and go our own way.
1 and 3 are OK, 2 I’m not so sure about...

It’s classes that ISAF recognise and there’s absolutely no reason why a future IRSCA and IOMICA can’t merge if required, or at least work together closely on mutual issues such as app E.

However you’ll note that it’s a future IRSCA that we’re talking about here. There is the possibility that the RSD DMs decide not to take that route, in which case there will no longer be an organisation to join.

The Exec has suggested to the World Council that we take option 1, either solely, if IRSCA doesn’t come about, or in concert if it does. I’m still waiting for responses from the World Council. I remain hopeful that a resolution will be put to the AGM along those lines.

Cheers
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

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