On the water at last !!!!!

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Dave Pickett
Posts: 107
Joined: 18 Oct 2010, 19:33
Sail number: GBR3845
Club: Eastbourne
Design: TS2 and Shiraz

On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Dave Pickett » 05 Sep 2014, 17:07

Well very nearly, the newly acquired TS2 will be on the water next Thursday!

I retired last week and in the run up decided to revisit IOM and my local club at Eastbourne. In addition to a warm welcome there was a TS2 for sale with 3 suits of sails, an RMG winch, and Futaba S3003 rudder servo. I added my Spektrum MR300 RX and 1600mah LiFe cells and a bit of setting up and it's good to go. Some Pictures:

Image

Image

and a further picture posed with a Dragon Force 65

Image

The DF65 is being sailed at Eastbourne as an introduction to sailing, too many people are put off by the initial cost of an IOM and the DF at £150 is an affordable entry boat. They sail very well and are proving popular, Eastbourne remains firmly an IOM based club and the aim is to convert people to IOM after they have started on the DF's.

Back to the TS2, should the jib be closer to the deck, if so will there be any benefit?

Plans for this boat are limited, remove the black electrical tape and replace with a neater smaller tape, and at some point consider upgrading the rudder servo. I know it's an old design but it will get me on the water and learning before I move on to something more modern.

Hiljoball
Posts: 270
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
Location: CAN

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Hiljoball » 05 Sep 2014, 19:51

Dave Pickett wrote:
Back to the TS2, should the jib be closer to the deck, if so will there be any benefit?

.
Looking great -

and to answer your question, I would say Yes- as close as possible.

Lower to the deck gives an end plate effect to make the sail more efficient, and it lowers the COE of the sail plan, which should reduce heel a little.

But don't take the jib clew below the upper edge of the lower mast band.

John
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

Lester
Posts: 611
Joined: 14 Oct 2004, 22:29
Location: GBR 105
Contact:

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Lester » 05 Sep 2014, 20:11

Dave Pickett wrote:should the jib be closer to the deck, if so will there be any benefit?
Hi Dave

Yes, and yes.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

David L Alston
Posts: 72
Joined: 24 Jul 2012, 17:38
Sail number: 3011
Club: Leicestershire RYC UK
Design: Fatboy

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by David L Alston » 05 Sep 2014, 20:50

But not so low that a line draw between the Tack and Clew of the head sail intersects the mast below the lower limit mark / band as I recall.

But at Eastbourne I doubt you will derive any benefit by lowering the rig because of the wind pattern on that pond


This is an IOM site -- is it really appropriate to discuss Dragon Boats here. I assume you will be entering the IOM Ranking Event at Eastbourne

Hiljoball
Posts: 270
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 00:47
Sail number: CAN 307
Design: V8
Location: CAN

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Hiljoball » 05 Sep 2014, 21:06

David raised an interesting point, so I looked up the rule.to get the actual wording It is in the ERS

John

B.1.2 Mast Lower Limit Mark
When a sail is set on a main boom, foremast boom or mizzen boom, the
extension of the upper edge of the sparshall intersect the mast sparabove the
mast lower limit mark, with the boom sparon the mast sparcentreplane and
at 90° to the mast spar.
John Ball
CRYA #895
IOM CAN 307 V8
In my private capacity

Lester
Posts: 611
Joined: 14 Oct 2004, 22:29
Location: GBR 105
Contact:

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Lester » 05 Sep 2014, 21:34

David L Alston wrote:But not so low that a line draw between the Tack and Clew of the head sail intersects the mast below the lower limit mark / band
Hi David

Which IOM Class Rule is that, please?
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Dave Pickett
Posts: 107
Joined: 18 Oct 2010, 19:33
Sail number: GBR3845
Club: Eastbourne
Design: TS2 and Shiraz

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Dave Pickett » 06 Sep 2014, 08:23

This is an IOM site -- is it really appropriate to discuss Dragon Boats here.
Yes absolutely. I sailed my DF65 at Eastbourne last Thursday and a man and his son enquired about starting in the hobby and the response was that you can get a boat complete for £150, and the guy was going to look at getting one. All too often people have been put off by the cost of an IOM - had we have said the boat would cost £2000 as we have in the past the interested party would have walked off never to be seen again.

Eastbourne and in fact many enlightened clubs globally have adopted the DF as a starter class and feeder for IOM, as I and many others see it the success of DF will feed into increasing the popularity of IOM - which can only be a good thing and as far as I am concerned it is totally appropriate to discuss on this and other IOM forums.

I am a total beginner but yes I will be taking part in competitions in due course, I have a Shiraz on order which should be more competitive, but I have to learn to sail first! (and the DF helps here as well)

Thanks for the responses I will leave the jib where it is for the time being and see how it goes.

David L Alston
Posts: 72
Joined: 24 Jul 2012, 17:38
Sail number: 3011
Club: Leicestershire RYC UK
Design: Fatboy

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by David L Alston » 06 Sep 2014, 15:34

double post erased
Last edited by David L Alston on 06 Sep 2014, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.

David L Alston
Posts: 72
Joined: 24 Jul 2012, 17:38
Sail number: 3011
Club: Leicestershire RYC UK
Design: Fatboy

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by David L Alston » 06 Sep 2014, 15:36

I do not recall stating this to be a RULE … not all things are RULES and If I gave that impression I do apologise for it was not intended.

But you knew it was not a Class Rule. The class rules only constrain the highest position of the headsail

My comment is based upon having owned and sailed a TS2 and I still compete using a SKIFF design, and concluded the best compromise between performance and rig came at about that point.

We … my colleagues at the Salt Mine involved with very advanced fluid dynamics spent some time modelling the rig of an IOM in the same way Turbine Blades are modelled because we wondered why the original IOM drawings had most pointedly drawn the sail profile as it is on the cover of the class rules. Much to our amassment it produced the best dynamic results.

Unfortunately we no longer own our test tunnel across the road but we/I do sneak in there on the odd occasions. Regrettably the instrumentation does not turn down sufficiently to show anything meaningful and the results, whilst repeatable, are misleading.

We do not test turbine blades in this way

Quite apart from other silly practical issues associated with a too lower rig like:-

• The Jib Boom dragging in the water on the Reach
• The counterweight banging on the Deck
• The swivel line being too short

I also note that comparatively small ponds with concrete edges, of the type of Eastbourne, walled and sunken, the wind is not laminar at the interface of water. Whilst one might gain a little by reducing the heeling moment by point zero, a great deal more of sail is now in turbulent air at the water interface.

A different story on more open water – but then the waves get bigger
It is not good to compare with full-size boats because the wind and turbulence does not scale

But this is clearly MY belief, not at a TOP 20 skipper but an ACTIVE skipper

It might be of interest that one of our club members recently bought a Lintel that had everything dropped to the point where another 2 mm would be impossible … He sailed it like that for a month or so then decided to raise the rig 15 mm --- what a transformation -- The boat it now quick in light / medium air.. we do not sail in the sea.

The Skiff will come back into fashion, of this I am sure – the wheel rotates. Is there that much if any difference , in the water of these hull shapes. It is deck layout that has moved forward from the flat top to ...



I will be sailing RM at Fleetwood next weekend .. are you coming to do the protests ?

Dr David L Alston or just simply - Badskipper

Dave Pickett
Posts: 107
Joined: 18 Oct 2010, 19:33
Sail number: GBR3845
Club: Eastbourne
Design: TS2 and Shiraz

Re: On the water at last !!!!!

Post by Dave Pickett » 12 Sep 2014, 08:44

Fist sail of the TS2 yesterday with the guys at Eastbourne. Got round OK and of course came last in each race, but got loads of help from the guys with boat set up and the TS2 is sailing much better now.

Don't think the light and shifting winds were especially suitable for the TS2, but in heavy weather I am sure it will be right up there, and it seemed much more competitive when others were at the helm!!!!! Lots of work to do now on my sailing ability before next time (in a fortnight due to hols) but I am happy to have made a start.

The ball raced goose neck bearings have disintegrated but I have sourced some from Germany. I will also replace the Futaba 3003 servo with an HB 325 which I already have (or maybe the 225 which although smaller has more torque) Have taken exponential off at the recommendation of the local experts but I still have dual rate to cut rudder sensitivity if need be. I need to learn to use the rudder less as it also acts as a brake!!!

TS2 remained bone dry and performed as it should, RMG winch is spot on. I will also run the RX aerials further down the hull rather than coiled, I sensed one moment which may have been radio link failure, so better to be safe.

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