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What will happen on 1st of June 2006 ?

Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 09:15
by Eric
The Using of Lead will be forbidden for Toys, sports and leisure articles.


you can read this here



http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_d ... l=guichett

What will Change in the Class Rules for Europe ?

Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:05
by Laurent Schock
time to use something else than lead...

a few choices:

http://www.science.co.il/PTelements.asp?s=Density

Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:09
by awallin
Hi Eric,

the document you linked to(Directive 2002/96/EC) is a bit... long and cryptic...

If you are well versed in the EU documentation, could you pick out for us the relevant paragraphs ?

I've been meaning to try out a solid brass bulb whenever I get my hands on som machining time on a cnc lathe....
I think most ACC bulbs are steel aren't they ?

Anders

Re: What will happen on 1st of June 2006 ?

Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:12
by Lester
Eric wrote:The Using of Lead will be forbidden for Toys, sports and leisure articles.
Hi Eric

I don't read that Directive in the same way. As far as I can see, it covers electrical and electronic equipment. I don't think our toy boats are "electrical and electronic equipment". I believe the Directive covers only the radio gear (batteries included) on board.

Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:40
by Eric
The problem is that it is only written "Toys containing....." and as soon as you have an electronic component , the use of lead ist forbidden.

in Danmark it is allready forbidden for fishing and hunting for exemple

Posted: 17 Nov 2005, 17:38
by Jimmy
VCinfocomms wrote: I think most ACC bulbs are steel aren't they ?
A ACC bulb contains 1.8 cubic meters of lead, VO 60 and 70 also have lead in their bulbs.

//JIMMY

Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 23:58
by Rob Davis
Try using powdered tungsten. You can make any shape you want. Present measurement rules wouldn't find the substrate.

Rob

Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 19:22
by ole_peder
Hi
I can't see the problem. What I am sailing is certainnly not a "toy", I wouldn't let any kid near my boat.

No, people, an IOM is a fine tuned piece of racing equipment. Utilizing the latest technology available allowed in the IOM class rules.

Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 22:16
by Roy Thompson
Rob said:
Present measurement rules wouldn't find the substrate
Could you explain this please Rob?
Thanks

Posted: 09 Dec 2005, 03:00
by cfwahl
Rule 3.1: Materials shall not be of density higher than lead (11.300 kg/m3).

If you mixed tungsten with some resin, you could get a mixture that did not exceed the density of lead, but the tungsten material (19,250 kg/m3) would not comply. I speculate that Rob's point is that this would be difficult to verify (if the finished bulb had an aggegate density less than or equal to lead).

But this would certainly be an option to avoid anti-lead regulation, if the class chose to go this way.

Posted: 09 Dec 2005, 04:53
by Laurent Schock
I have seen that in Germany they are offering stainless steel bulbs'.

No need to cast anymore! , though I have never done it, I read on several occasions that it could have some health issues.

Posted: 09 Dec 2005, 08:41
by awallin
Laurent Schock wrote:I have seen that in Germany they are offering stainless steel bulbs'.
No need to cast anymore! , though I have never done it, I read on several occasions that it could have some health issues.
Interestign ! do you have some pictures or links ?

Steel (or brass) does not ofcourse have the density of lead, but they are both very much machineable.

A friend of mine who works with modern CNC machines thinks a steel bulb can be CNC machined on a modern lathe in maybe 30min. from say a solid 40mm stainless steel rod. In large quantities this way of making a bulb would not be that expensive.

If I get my hands on some free machining time sometime I will try a stainless steel bulb.

Anders

Posted: 09 Dec 2005, 09:52
by edmorales
hi y'all,
i think bronze or brass is more feasible than stainless steel, it is heavier which equates to a smaller cross section bulb, easier to turn on the lathe and probably cheaper. here is a chart for referrence.

Metal or alloy kg/cu.m
aluminium - melted 2560 - 2640
aluminium bronze (3-10% Al) 7700 - 8700
aluminium foil 2700 -2750
antifriction metal 9130 -10600
beryllium 1840
beryllium copper 8100 - 8250
brass - casting 8400 - 8700
brass - rolled and drawn 8430 - 8730
bronze - lead 7700 - 8700
bronze - phosphorous 8780 - 8920
bronze (8-14% Sn) 7400 - 8900
cast iron 6800 - 7800
cobolt 8746
copper 8930
delta metal 8600
electrum 8400 - 8900
gold 19320
iron 7850
lead 11340
light alloy based on Al 2560 - 2800
light alloy based on Mg 1760 - 1870
magnesium 1738
mercury 13593
molybdenum 10188
monel 8360 - 8840
nickel 8800
nickel silver 8400 - 8900
platinum 21400
plutonium 19800
silver 10490
steel - rolled 7850
steel - stainless 7480 - 8000
tin 7280
titanium 4500
tungsten 19600
uranium 18900
vanadium 5494
white metal 7100
zinc 7135

depleted uranium tops the heap
ed

Posted: 09 Dec 2005, 11:03
by kure
I agree with Ole Peder. This is not a problem
This must be regulated at production/sales level not on
users of the equipment.

The producers sell their boats without bulbs.
Bulbs are bought separately (no electronics) and put together privately.

Why not use Gold :) looks good.....
Or Plutonium or uranium .... :evil: I would like to have
a neuclear IOM - cool !

Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 05:53
by Laurent Schock
VCinfocomms wrote:
Laurent Schock wrote:I have seen that in Germany they are offering stainless steel bulbs'.
No need to cast anymore! , though I have never done it, I read on several occasions that it could have some health issues.
Interestign ! do you have some pictures or links ?

Anders
Image

from the Modellyachtclub Muenchen under tipps

http://www.modellsegeln.net/tipps/tipps.htm

Contact:

Manfred Prothmann
manfred.prothmann@gmx.de

Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 10:36
by Lester
VCmeasurement wrote:Rob said:
Present measurement rules wouldn't find the substrate
Could you explain this please Rob?
I don't think Rob means to use the word "substrate" (the material or substance on which an agent acts, the surface on which an organism grows or is attached, or an underlying layer), I think he simply meant to say that the rules wouldn't necessarily detect the presence of tungsten powder in a bulb.
E.3.1 MATERIALS
Materials shall not be of density higher than lead (11.300 kg/m3).
A measurer, if s/he wanted to check this, would use Archimedes' principle, and see how much water was displaced by the bulb. Although the bulb might well have tungsten powder mixed in, if it displaced at least around 2300 / 11.3 = 208 ml of water (assume bulb weighs 2300 gm) any tungsten (or anything else!) would remain undetected... Which as far as I can see is not a problem. One of those rules (there are quite a few of them!) which are, strictly, unenforceable with equipment and techniques commonly available to IOM measurers.

Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 19:02
by Rainer
Hi Laurent,

the bulbs on your picture are not stainless steel, they are made from lead. But they have a very smooth surface.

Rainer

Posted: 11 Dec 2005, 04:33
by Laurent Schock
Rainer wrote:Hi Laurent,

the bulbs on your picture are not stainless steel, they are made from lead. But they have a very smooth surface.

Rainer
SORRY for the misinformation, I somehow thought they were made of steel!

Again sorry....