PHOCEA Cup 2006 Final results

Discuss class championship regulations, sailing instructions, umpiring, observing, scoring software, fleet racing systems, forthcoming international events, etc

Moderator: Rob Walsh

Post Reply
User avatar
Olivier Cohen
Posts: 308
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 17:11
Sail number: FRA 100
Design: Britpop
Location: Nantes / France

PHOCEA Cup 2006 Final results

Post by Olivier Cohen » 17 Apr 2006, 23:04

Congratulations to Pierluigi PUTHOD ! ... eneral.htm

rémi brès
Posts: 12
Joined: 07 Dec 2003, 08:49
Location: FRA 745

Post by rémi brès » 19 Apr 2006, 19:00

and this link to see some views of the races... ... seille.wmv

Posts: 627
Joined: 14 Oct 2004, 22:29
Location: GBR 105

Post by Lester » 19 Apr 2006, 22:52

Hi Remi


I was astounded to see the sailing on show, between the time marks 1:14 and 1:36 in particular. I haven't yet stepped through this sequence carefully frame by frame, but I estimate around 8 boats should have taken penalty turns, and a further 3 or 4 boats should have retired immediately because they gained an advantage by breaking the rules. Heck, I could see at least one boat that should have been DSQ'd from the remainder of the event and sent home.

This is a real issue for the IOM class. I cannot see how such cynical, unsportsmanlike sailing can remain tolerated.

ISAF, through its outspoken and often controversial President, Paul Henderson, took a strong lead a couple of years ago and finally tackled the propulsion issue (cynical, deliberate, rule-breaking sailing) in dinghy competition systematically and firmly.

I think something similar needs to be done for the IOM.

Comments, anyone?
Lester Gilbert

Andy Stevenson
GBR NCA Officer
Posts: 772
Joined: 15 Sep 2005, 13:08
Location: UK

Post by Andy Stevenson » 20 Apr 2006, 12:07


I, like you, have yet to study it in detail, although I doubt that will really be necessary. It’s quite obvious that an awful lot of blatant rule breaking is going on. Those skippers that are deliberately breaking the rules, by definition, aren’t going to be doing voluntary penalties. Other skippers, breaking the rules un-noticed, are unlikely to be doing turns while in such company.

I agree this needs stamping out, firmly. Quite how that would be achieved is a topic, I have no doubt, people more qualified than me will contribute to.

However my major concern would be that those skippers happy to break the rules to gain an advantage while sailing would be equally happy to use their time as observers as a tactical exercise in disadvantaging their opponents!

Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

Ray Flanigan
Posts: 28
Joined: 29 Aug 2004, 22:37
Location: GBR 85

Spilt milk

Post by Ray Flanigan » 20 Apr 2006, 20:00

I agree fully that there were loads of infringements, just wish I could see the jib numbers so that I know who to avoid when I eventually end up sailing in their
In a siutation as is seen in the clip where the observers would have needed eyes in the back of their heads to call all the boats doing infringements, the best would have been to stop that race and order a restart. Before the restart explain why it has been done (the restart) and state that if any more of this tupe of behaviour and the skippers persistently breaking the rules and being unsportsmanlike will be barred from taking part in the rest of the event.
This type of action would certainly put the wind up the persistent offenders even if some of them get away unobserved, they would see examples being made of those who were caught out and rethink their underhand tactics.
All above is in my most humble opinion, I expect to be shot down in flames by some. (but who cares my slate is clean)
I sail by the rules and expect the same of others. Except when the lesser experienced sailors are being bullied and then I will sail by the "farming" rules ...........................hehehehe

Posts: 707
Joined: 15 Dec 2003, 21:03

Post by RoyL » 21 Apr 2006, 00:33

People look at things in different ways. Without knowing the context, I would be very reluctant to accuse sailors of intentional misconduct.

I believe the first questions that need to be asked are what were the course conditions; what was happening with the wind; and what was the knowledge and experience of the sailors. It would seem reasonable that the next thing to do is to talk to a few competitors and find out their opinion on what was going on.

Only after this review would I venture an opinion. My general observation is that very, very few people intentionally break the rules and then "cynically" try to get away with it. Most often people are confused or caught up in the racing action and make mistakes. Usually, when conftronted with their failings, most people respond positively.

Posts: 1
Joined: 12 Mar 2004, 20:18
Location: FRA 3713

Post by didier » 21 Apr 2006, 07:40

Thank you Roy for your different way of looking at it :lol: .
I was not at this race but follow the comments of the French skippers on our frorum after Lester comments :cry: .

1/ it is very different to watch a video frame per frame than being sailing the boat.

2/ this" movie was not shot from the control zone but with a different angle.

3/ the wind direction was completely unusual for this spot for this time of the year. And the point of view of the sailors from the control zone was not the best for this mark. But the control zone was set up the best they could.

4/ Lester comments concern one mark 30seconds of this 17 minutes movie

Like Roy said I would suggest having some of the skippers who were at the regatta to give us their point of view.

Didier FRA 3713

Jeff Kay
IRL NCA Officer
Posts: 45
Joined: 26 Nov 2003, 20:22
Location: IRL 43, IRL 87

Post by Jeff Kay » 22 Apr 2006, 11:28

Had a quick look at the footage. Looks like the familiar problem of a far away downwind mark.

Often from the skippers' vantage point the boats blanket one another and it is almost impossible to see individual boats. However there's no excuse for piling in if the view is better. Think you'd need to know what the skippers could see before you pass too much judgement. The video could easily be taken from a different angle.

An example of this was the Euros in Arcos where I watched a race from the far side of the course. The number of clear infringements was amazing as was the fact the a couple of boats never made it around the far mark at all !

As a separate issue, the boat in the footage approaching the windward mark on port and then diving into a non-existent gap squeezing around while hitting the mark and then doing one turn would appear to be a worse offence. At the worlds the umpires were onto this "tactic" and were enforcing multiple penalties.


rémi brès
Posts: 12
Joined: 07 Dec 2003, 08:49
Location: FRA 745

Post by rémi brès » 23 Apr 2006, 21:22

many answers are below...

i'm sure you'll be peased to knox the course had been changed after this race
first, with a leeward gate, but it was still awfull
and then with a "leeward dogleg", with the two marks easy to see (and observe)

bad courses make bad behaviours...

Post Reply