IOMICA Website--What Happened?

[RoyL]

Just wondering what happened to this website. Used to be regularly updated and widely visited. The home page doesn't even mention the outcome of the World Championship (congrats again Peter). The class officers never give updates on what is going on or issues confronting the class. No real technical discussions anymore. Not even any fights about the rules.

Question is does this mean (i) everything is fine with everything; (ii) everyone is too busy sailing; or (iii) interest in the IOM is declining?

[Dave Pickett]

I find the forum rather "slow" loads of people seem to view but few actually bother to post anything.

I am just building my IOM but I have doubts that IOM will survive long term because of the way the world has changed but IOM havnt:

- very few people these days have the skill to build a boat
- kits are very hard to find and crazy expensive as well as being challenging to build
- The rules havnt changed for a long time (arguably a good thing but even micro magics allow carbon fibre masts, sometimes change is needed.)
- there are other more accessible forms of RC sailing such as the MM and laser, both of which are now available ready made.

I cant help but feel that once this generation has stopped sailing there may not be enough new blood to keep the sport alive.

CAN I ASK THAT EVERYONE WHO VIEWS THIS THREAD POSTS A RESPONSE?

(sorry to shout but I do feel more people should post their comments, and this thread is about the current state and future of IOM, something everyone on here cares about, surely?)

[Hiljoball]

I think that the class is very healthy and doing well. The absence of posts on this forum is not an indicator. We just held the 9th world championship. How do the other international classes (RA, R10, RM) compare. . .not very well! Are the Laser or MM competitors? I think not, for a number of reasons.

There is little discussion on the class rules, because the rules are not that bad. . .can we tweek them? Sure. Big issues. . not really. The voting structure protects the status quo. It is hard to get a change approved - that is itself an issue, but it does protect the investment in existing boats.

Boat building is an interesting topic. Here in Canada, we have a strong tradition of scratch building. . in some other places, complete kits and finished boats are more popular (a combination of factors. . .long winters and usually, a lower dollar).

This site is not normally used for construction logs. . .rcsailing.net or windpower at rcsailtalk.com are more active with logs and feedback.

Why the executive have not provided an active report and feedback of the World's on this forum. That is an issue!

John

[Bruce Andersen]

The Exec used to post monthly or semi-monthly accounts of what was going on behind the scenes (remember that there is a large part of this forum that is hidden from the general membership) but I can't remember one in the recent few years, which I think has contributed quite a bit to the apparent lack of interest. It certainly has cooled my ardor for IOMs and IOMICA.

Is the class dying because it's too technical or expensive? I doubt it. The IOM rule, while long and complex, keeps thousands of boats pretty competitive for many years. Once you amortize the cost over the lifespan of a good hull, cost is not really that great.

Rather than question the rules or complain about a silent Exec that keeps the general membership in the dark, let's concentrate on one thing that we can change: membership. How old is the youngest member of your club? Our "youngster" is 54!

For those clubs with vibrant growth and a good influx of younger new members, what are you doing right?

[Barry Fox CAN262]

Because of Dave's post I will give my (and it is only mine) opinion.

The level of posting on these kinds of forums is cyclic at best. If you look at the history you see periods when there is a lot of exchange of ideas and questions answered. The good thing about these kinds of Forums is that the history of those postings is still all here. So you can go through the back topics and pick up a lot of good advice without asking. Some people, and a lot of them are new folks, don't like to ask what they think is a dumb question. So they sit back and wait to have someone else ask, or else they scroll through pages of forums until they find something close. Some of them, like Dave, step right up and jump in and my guess is that there are many who have kept an eye on his posts about his build and learned a fair amount from it.

After November 20th I too will join back in and post more often. For now it is safest if I don't.

Personally I think the class is doing fine. Room to be better? Sure, but what group couldn't be better.

[Dave Pickett]

How old is the youngest member of your club? Our "youngster" is 54!

Well I am building my first IOM at 58, and I am one of the few at the club I am joining who isnt retired!

Is the class dying because it's too technical or expensive? I doubt it. The IOM rule, while long and complex, keeps thousands of boats pretty competitive for many years. Once you amortize the cost over the lifespan of a good hull, cost is not really that great.

This is true of course, but picture the scene of a father and son who has shown an interest and is told by an enthusiastic club member that it will cost (choose your own high number) £1000 to get a boat and there will be a longing waiting list to join, then of course there's 2 extra rigs, and spare winch/servos etc, and you will find in many cases our prosective new members will have wandered off.......the issue here is the initial price of entering the sport.

IOM is in a way the formula one of model yachts, what might help is for clubs to encourage new members to operate more affordable classes (maybe the Micro Magic or the Laser) to get them interested whilst they build up towards an IOM. There is of course a counter to that in that members who start with Lasers/MMs might be happy to continue with those choices, and not provide the intended feed for IOMs.

A readily available kit at a sensible price would be a really big boost, but the small volumes involved make this almost impossible to achieve.

I hope my posts are taken in a positive manner, whilst I am new to IOM (and in some eyes dont know what I am talking about) as a newcomer I have faced all the barriers to entry that beginers face; whilst in my case I am determined, a lot of potential newcomers will be deterred.

(please also remember that at 58 I am not exactly the young blood that all new sports/hobbies need to attract to keep their pastime healthy)

[Rob Walsh]

In The UK IOM kit boats are available. Dave Creed produces the Widget, Errica, Lintel and Viper in kit form with detailed assembly instructions. A few of my friends actually priced up a kit boat from Dave and believe they can have a competitive kit boat built and on the water for less than a top spec Micro Magic due to the wonderful restriction IOMs have.

Surely this is something to be proud of, I certainly know which boat I would rather sail!!

[Xabier]

Question is does this mean (i) everything is fine with everything; (ii) everyone is too busy sailing; or (iii) interest in the IOM is declining?

What about the need to write in English? I am sure that 70% of IOM sailors in the world can't do it (myself included).

[Dave Pickett]

Dave and believe they can have a competitive kit boat built and on the water for less than a top spec Micro Magic

Can you guide me to a website please?

[Hiljoball]

Dave and believe they can have a competitive kit boat built and on the water for less than a top spec Micro Magic

Can you guide me to a website please?

http://www.chrissails.com/


John

[Marko Majic]

I agree with Roy and share his concern... (Whoah... Something seems strange about that last sentence... Just kidding Roy - I'm sure we agreed on other things in the past )

The lack of activity and interest on this site (and in the IOM online community at large) is curious and to some extent disconcerting... Especially telling, I thought, was lack of any discussion about and during the recently held Worlds... I seem to remember in the past, competitors would log in and post tidbits of information and there would be a lively discussion about what was going on... This time around - not so much... No comments about the videos, the results or the spectacular finish to the regatta... I mean top two boats tied in points going into the final race after spending a week beating the crap out of each other - and then to actually have BOTH claw their way through the fleet after being called over AND have a lead change mid-way through the regatta AND have one of them actually WIN the last race (after re-starting) - you could not have scripted it better if you were making a movie... You'd think it would be discussed on the board for weeks... Instead not a single post about the Worlds (well, I guess technically I made one post asking about who was awarded Geoff Smale trophy)... It's pretty strange...

I disagree with Roy however in saying that this is somehow unique to IOMICA forum - looking over at the USA IOM forum - it seems to be equally "ghost town"-ed... There is an occasional regatta notice but virtually no discussion. Now, some may ascribe that to forum move and people not used to the new platform - but it seems more of a general IOM apathy...

WC (2011) organizers did not elect to show the number of hits on their website so there is no way to compare them with prior events - which may tell us whether we are just getting more shy about voicing our opinions or just don't care altogether... I suspect it might be former...

Either way - there is only one way to combat this trend and that is to start posting more... (aren't I the smart one?)

I applaud Robbie Walsh for posting here and would love to see him post some of his impressions from the Worlds (and from other people who attended, of course). That would certainly serve to kick things off...

One thing I had always admired about the Star class is how they had meticulously kept track of their history and I have often gone here http://www.starclass.org/history/index.shtml for some great reading about people like Lowell North, Charlie Cardenas, Malin Burnham, Buddy Melges and others who passed through the class... And all the time I would think how we should do the same... Of course, that's a whole other topic...

Marko

[Ian Stead]

I have been told on good authority the website was 'hit' about 500,000 times, nothing but amazing.

In our club we are lucky to have a few younger members and the latest teenager who arrived to watch and show interest about 6 months ago has had his membership paid for by another member and has been given scraps of old boats to get him on the water. What you see with young members quite often is they will lose interest when they discover beer and girls but as IOM radio sailing is so addictive they come back.

For all the latest information on IOM i find the daily newspaper 'MAINBOOM' cannot be touched. Try it, google 'mainboom iom italy'. Beware though it is also addictive. We could use this site to get the latest information then discuss it on the IOMICA forum. Max updates it daily and must scour the worlds websites for his information. We should use MAINBOOM to compliment this forum. I also applaud Rob Walsh for posting on the forum,maybe he can can get some of the other great skippers to post aswell with there experiences of the worlds and other races.

The IOMICA forum is dead because of the members but the website is dead because of the exec, even the picture on the homepage is from the 2008 Euros. IOM sailing is definately not dead or dying though, quite the opposite,look at the entries to the worlds,nationals etc etc etc

[Rob Walsh]

Dave, would probably be cheaper to go direct to dave creed. However Dave does not have a web page, he does all his business by email and phone +441513427693

[Dave Pickett]

272 views, 12 posts, pretty typical unfortunately.

[Dave Alston]

Perhaps off the subject a bit but a most interesting discussion, is it dying ?? what is happening??

There can be little doubt that all classes of Radio Yachting are on the wane after the terrific resurgence of about 2000 or so in the UK, but is probally stable compared to say 20 years ago. This has never and will never be a popular passtime and I have played this game, off and on, for near 30 years.

It is my belief that much of this decline relates to diversification created by the number of classes more than any other single contributory factor. The Soling, Laser, Bottle Boat, Victoria and Micro Magic sold as cheap entry level boats, none of which sail very well, brought with them many new faces to the ponds around the country and race days saw fleets of 20 or more at some clubs.

Regrettably, many top names from the more established classes, RM, IOM etc. immediately competed in these new classes, some activly promoting them, possibly attracted by the prospect of an easy championship victory. The problem with this is that very few, if any, of these new comers enjoyed success as these old established names dominated every event. And so little by little the new comers dropped out, discouraged in not having tasted success in any form.

Admittedly a few might have got hooked and crossed into IOM, RM or A Class but one believes this to be an extremely small number. This is by no means a new or unique phenomenon, my son and I saw this in Radio Car racing. No matter there we went we found ourselves competing against the same people week in week out as we changed class from Pan to 2wd touring car to 4wd touring car, from electric to gas. But the net result as few year later is that:-
• Laser
• Micro Magic
• Soling
• Victoria
• RG65

classes are not universally sailed in great numbers at this time and one believes that most lie abandoned in attics and the remaining devotees sail them when there is no IOM, RM sailing scheduled.

Two Islands Club in UK is an example of this phenomenon. Most of their members have both a Laser and an IOM and sail them alternately. So loose one member and you lose two boats, one in each class.

The Marblehead Class is no different or for that matter the A Class. Look at the championship results and will immediately recognised the same names in all three classes in many cases sailing borrowed boats. Nothing wrong with this but one must realise that the activity is to some extent artificial.

I firmly believe that in place of diversifying efforts, the Radio Sailing community should concentrate on at most three classes, short, medium and long, as an example 650, 1000, 1600 mm long. One is also inclined to believe that a skipper should only be permitted to compete in a single class championship each year, so forcing them to choose a class.

But most importantly, the group at the back of the club field should get a lot more support, advice, nurturing and encouragement from the front skippers before they too disappear, as they surly will!

I dont care if it is a Rm or and IOM its all the same to me.

[Dave Alston]

Just to finish off-

There is reference within this thread to “ Competitive Boats “ and the assertion that , for example a 10 year old boat, will not be as competitive as the boat that took the world title this year and that a homemade or kit boat is inferior to an assembled boat from A B C whoever.

This generalisation is simply not true. One has to realise that it is between partnership skipper, hull, equipment, mast and sail. The boat as a whole will not be successful unless all of the partners work in harmony. The hull is not the engine, the sails are. The radio does not set the sails or set the course, it simply positions the sail and rudder. One must be realistic and realise that it is the skipper who generally has let the team down and not the converse.

It is nice to have shiny things but looks do not win races. Generally:-

• A good start is most helpful
• Staying clear of the fleet is advantageous
• Taking the right shifts is very useful
• Not touching the marks is good practice
• Not stopping or stalling saves a lot of time
• Not wiggling the rudder about all the time improves speed
• Not trying to out point the opposition boat is essential
• Not getting into private battles within the fleet will jump you up the fleet many places

- is the way to go. ( not that I ever get it right)

I am aware of a gentleman who swapped his new Picanto for an Isis and jumped from last place in club races to third. It would be interesting to hear how the other gentleman is fairing with the Picanto. The Isis is a relatively old boat and I would believe his imediate success is because he simply joined the team in stead of fighting with it.

Only a fool would believe that he is going to buy into success with the latest in boat, sail, radio. Try swapping boats at your next club race with someone who regularly beats you for the day and try to beat your own boat. – I wager you cannot beat your own boat in his hands. Better still all swap boats for that day. We do just this a lot at our club.

You can enter the IOM class at £300 to £3000 and the enjoyment will be the same.

[Dave Pickett]

But most importantly, the group at the back of the club field should get a lot more support, advice, nurturing and encouragement from the front skippers before they too disappear, as they surly will!

Yes the problem these days is that everyone wants instant success or they give up! I sailed my laser and came last in every race, in the last heat I was very close to finishing second to last but didnt quite make it. I am happy with that as progress but many are not, guys at my local club have been very encouraging.

I do agree about too many classes, my background is radio controlled cars (mardaves mainly these days) and the local club caters for:

unmodified cars
modified
6 cell saloon stox
ministox
stock cars
bangers

net result is that none of the classes are that well supported!!! Its a pitfall clubs fall into in trying to suit everyone, something to be avoided.

[Derrick Young]

I know I a late to this party but I too will chime in from the perspective of a new comer.

One of the biggest challenges a new comer faces to this hobby is finding current information. Most club and Class web sites are so full of broken links it is not funny. After a few hours of trying to find information I too thought the sport was dead and this was not just IOM but most classes.

The younger generations rely so heavily on the internet and ease of finding information that until more classes and Clubs really take their WEB presence seriously finding the next/new generation will always be an effort.

As for this Board and slow traffic. I have years of experience running a board that caters to a niche hobby. On a whole this forum seems to cater more to the dissemination of technical information and not chatter and sharing of information. This relies on a select few to initiate the conversations. If those select few drop off then much of the chatter goes with it.

[R Schofield USA 463]

I am a relatively new return to the sport. Having been out of the game for over twenty years, the changes to the sport have been a big shock. Overall, I think that our class is healthy and locally (SF Bay Area) is very competitive and lots of good helpful folks here. Success of newcomers to the sport depends on their commitment to getting a boat, availability of affordable used boats, and support from existing club sailors to help the new sailor get up to speed. The more exposure our sport and class gets to the general public, then that should help bring in new sailors. Just my two cents. Ryan

[Jeff Kay]

The other thing to consider is that each country has its own forum - the Italian and French ones in particular are very active, with lots of good information.
Jeff