Thank You Greg Willis

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RoyL
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Thank You Greg Willis

Post by RoyL » 10 Aug 2007, 00:06

As the upcoming World Championships and Annual General Meeting are fast approaching, I thought a brief look back at where we were three years ago and an appreciation of how far forward we have moved under Greg Willis is in order.

For those of you who were there, the IOM Class on the eve of the Australlian World Championships was an organization in crisis and on the verge of falling apart.

The World Championship itself was on the brink of being cancelled due to a conflict between the Chairman of IOMICA and the organizsers of the race with IOMICA taking the position that unless its rules and dictates were accepted virtually without question, the World Championship woulld not be sanctioned.

The IOMICA Exec was running short handed because the representatives from both the United States and Canada had by their claim been ignored and put down to such a degree that they had quit.

The IOMICA Technical Committee had just completed issuing a series of rule "interpretations" that among other things had caused the banning of all sails made by "Black Magic" ; the ban of "texallium" boats; and the sanctioning of the jib boom being swivelled from the bottom of the hull because the technical committee could not define the term "deck" . Moreover, the Exec and the Technical Committee were proposing to ban the use of colored fiberglass tubes in any IOM which if passed would have banned all of Brad Gibson's "Disco" designs.

The IOMICA Forum however was very, very active. There were numerous post disputing the actions and policies of the IOMICA Exec and principally its chairman, Lester Gilbert. Lester dealt with these criticisims by often sending long, private emails to those who disagreed with his positions. These emails usually contained veiled threats of sanctions if the posters continued to disagree with the Exec and its policies.

For the Annual General Meeting itself, Lester Gilbert had apparently hand picked a successor, Anders Wallin, to succeed him as IOMICA Chairman and carry forward his policies. The Exec had put together a package of rules changes that had to be voted on an "all or nothing basis" that included a ratification of the ban on texalium boats. The Exec was also asking the class to accept its failure to collect required sanctioning fees from the organizers of the European Championship in Spain. And, Lester Gilbert himself was now running for the IOMICA Events position, but had directed Anders Wallin to withdraw his name from consideration if Greg Willis, who had decided to run against Anders for Chairman, was elected.

So what happened? Greg Willis was elected in a landslide. All of the rules changes proposed by the Exec were rejected. The World Championship in Australia took place, but the International Judges singled out Appendix Q, the on-water judging provisions written by Lester Gilbert as particularly ill advised and problematic. True to his word, Lester withdrew from the IOMICA Exec upon Greg's election, and went off to start his own class. (Actually, Lester eventually came back to IOMICA, but resigned from his position on the Events sub-committee when he felt his proposals were not being adopted.)

Under Greg Willis a new group of leadership was brought into IOMICA. Representatives from Australia, the UK and the United States were invitied to join the Exec. A philosphy of "open" decision making and "if its not broke, don't fix it" was put into place. Rather than have a technical committee impose rules changes on the Class, the Class was pushed to submit rule changes that its members wanted and then those rules changes were voted on by everyone. A firm, but fair attitude was taken reagarding the outstanding debt and it was collected in full. The ban on texallium boats was overturned. The Class intentionally operated independently of the RSD and urged that ultimate authority belonged in the hands of the members, not the unelected RSD. To the extent there were disagreements within the Exec, all positions were allowed to be heard and only if a consensus could not form, would Greg impose his judgment.

To the extent a rewite of the IOM rules were required to comply with changes made by ISAF in certain definitions, the process was done quickly and passed without dispute. When France agreed to host the World Championship, Burce Andersen took it upon himself to work with the French organizers to jointly develop rules and procedures and not simply dictate how things had to be done. To the extent that there were technical issues, in each case, advice was sought and all disputes were resolved without having to issue "technical committee rulings" that could have banned boats or equipment. And finally, Mike Eldred, our new head of measurment (a man who has worked for yacht designers Bruce Nelson and Doug Peterson and has been in charge of boat building and upkeep programs for America3, Oracle Racing, Prada and America One among many others) has been quietely polling builders and members about the viability of waterless measurement and self-certified sails in anticipation of submitting a detailed report to the class prior to the annual general meeting.

The result of this management has lead to a period of harmony and stability in the class. No boats or equipment are being threatened by the rule makers. While the IOMICA Forum has a lot less traffic, all of it is positive and helpful and no one is being banished. Class members are concentrating on boat design, building, sailing and racing and membership has been steadily growing.

These positive results do not come from neglect or mismanagement. They happened because Greg Willis worked very, very hard at making the IOMICA Exec work together and to always keep in mind the good of the class and its members not personal agendas. They happened because Greg believed the class would florish if simply left alone until a real problem occurred. They happened because Greg believed in democracy and that the class did not need an elite Exec issuing edicts and imposing an agenda from above.

So, having been involved, both from the inside and outside, and as someone who cares deeply about the IOM Class, I simply want to say thank you to Greg for all that he has done.

Lester
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Post by Lester » 10 Aug 2007, 00:41

Shame on you Roy for this personal muck-slinging. It says much more about you than about me.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 10 Aug 2007, 02:15

RoyL wrote:[...]I simply want to say thank you to Greg for all that he has done.
And yet this isn’t what you’ve done Roy. You’ve embarked on a personal attack of the most deplorable nature. Appalling behaviour.
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

RoyL
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Post by RoyL » 10 Aug 2007, 07:29

Unfortunately, Andy, you weren't around the IOM Class when all of the bad things I described happened.

You were around when all of the good things that happened under the current IOMICA administation led by Greg Willis took place. However, you don't seem to appreciate the hard work and effort it took to bring stability back to our class.

As to "pesonal attacks", "appalling behavior" and "deplorable". Come on. Andy, you are the one who started all this by attacking the current class administration and running against the man who appointed you, an unknown, to the IOM Exec. Read your own candidate statement and the things you said about Greg Willis, Mike Eldred and just about everyone else on the current IOM Exec.

I don't know. Perhaps it was impolitic of me to bring up how bad things used to be. Perhaps it would have been better to leave things unsaid. But I care very, very deeply about the IOM Class and I fear for its future. Someone much smater than me once said that if you don't remember the mistakes of the past, you are bound to repeat them.

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 10 Aug 2007, 10:09

Roy,
However, you don't seem to appreciate the hard work and effort it took to bring stability back to our class
As I’ve said, I don’t see stability, I see unresolved issues. As to hard work, please explain to me how anyone on the Exec has worked harder than me over the last two years.
Andy, you are the one who started all this by attacking the current class administration
I resent this remark. I have attacked nobody. I have pointed out issues that remain unresolved, nothing more.
the things you said about Greg Willis, Mike Eldred and just about everyone else on the current IOM Exec.
The only sentence that mentions specific Exec Officers, other than my nominators, is this one:
Andy wrote:For example, since Mike Eldred was co-opted to the position of VCMeasurement, I have seen not one request from Greg within the IOMICA forum for Mike to carry out any task.
How is this inaccurate please?
But I care very, very deeply about the IOM Class
I don’t doubt that you do. Personal insults aimed at the people you disagree with are a poor way to show it however, please stop.
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

David Turton
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Fair Dinkum

Post by David Turton » 10 Aug 2007, 16:39

Well Andy,
Have a spray...here is a quote from one of societies modern day philosphers "one of the most amazing lessons in life is when you finally recognise you don't know what you don't know. Only when you know what you don't know can you pontificate with such, such eloquence quote "dalai lama"..... A rare position you have my unknown friend.
Let me have a reply. As the individual that organised the last world championships at which you had absolutely NO involvement... At which i and many others on the committee tried to work with an organisation that had the view of an individual (despite the view of the majority) who's view was driven by unelected commercial minority. When the said person does not have the the courtesy to engage in freindly conversation away from the issues you do not have a person that can listen and appreciate ones point of view. Let me state that i have the utmost respect for the technical and engineeering knowledge of the minority. I have learnt a lot from reading of ones view. I can understand that you can become very confused by such such technical excellence which contradicts the raw lessons in life that teach you that every person has a contribution to make (something they failed to teach at university)(mind you they teach you that in business) and it is all in how you bring the excellence out of the person that seperates truly great leaders/managers from the dictators. Truly efficient leaders manage the different perspectives and views of many great people and when they recognise this attribute they let them run as has happened in the last two years.

Now you make some statements from the last world IOM championships that truly in a great english statement obviously indicate you "do not have a clue"(hang on, do you know what you dont know?)

Now you have openly stated your greatest admiration of one of your nominations for the committee, let us all now here, learn, how you as potential chairman of IOMICA will listen and manage the views of every other successful canditate of the elections and not turn the greatest RC class in the world to an inwardly focused organisation.

Roy has the fortitiude and conviction to speak his mind and his view of the truth is shared by many others. Your defence is to plead how dare he critisise a person. Show your true colours in how you can manage a board of directors with diverse attitudes and knowledge. Your potential role is not one of decision maker but one of communicator of the majorities veiws and the chairman of discussion and only in deadlock shall you decide....
The weight of every elected officers vote is clearly defined. Let us all hear your commitment to the constitution of IOMICA.
David Turton
IOMICA Treasurer

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 10 Aug 2007, 17:27

Hi David,

[quote]Now you make some statements from the last world IOM championships that truly in a great english statement obviously indicate you “do not have clueâ€
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

David Turton
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Post by David Turton » 10 Aug 2007, 17:53

Thanks Andy,
Roy views are based on actual experience and being the recipient of the said individuals correspondence.

Your statements are well recorded across many sites unless you have subsequenlty edited out your critisims?(i accept i may be a tad attached to the last worlds, there was an enormous amount of contribtution made by many people who have had significant experince in the sport who where restrained by a minorities opinion when the majority thought otherwise)

Please let us not drag this to the gutter to prove who is right or wrong, i was the recipient of some very ungrateful, nonsupportive communications which would would hardly encourage anybody to be involved with IOMICA.
Your role as future chairman is to progress the organisation in line with the constitution. That is all that is asked, we are all volunteers and somewhere along the line we should be able to gain some satisfaction from our respective contributions.

All that is asked is for your acknowledgement of complete impartiality, Your role in the future is one of organising a democratic opinion, not your own or that of a minority
David Turton
IOMICA Treasurer

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 10 Aug 2007, 18:05

Your statements are well recorded across many sites
Please provide evidence, I suspect you may be confusing me with someone else.
[…]unless you have subsequenlty edited out your critisims?
I have done no such thing, there’s no criticism of the AUS Worlds to be edited out!
All that is asked is for your acknowledgement of complete impartiality, Your role in the future is one of organising a democratic opinion, not your own or that of a minority
I agree, that is the role of the Chairman, I have no intention to change that.

Cheers
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

Daniel
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Post by Daniel » 11 Aug 2007, 09:46

Hi All,

Having succeeded Greg Willis as Australian Radio Yachting Accociation President, I would have to agree with Roys comments on Greg's leadership skills. I still often ask Greg for his opinion and he is only too eager to help. So on behalf of myself Greg thanks a bunch for a tremendous effort in you stewartship as IOMICA Chairman.

Now for my opion, well Andy you have been in the sport 2 minutes yet you believe you can solve all the problems of the world. I have been to the past 3 World Championships and have made many great friends at them. One thing is certainly evident, that 99% of skippers just want to sail and do not want to deal with unnecassary Technical palarbar!!. I was in Croatia when the working committee put the proposal of IOMICA to the sailors. I was at Canada when the ISAF RSD Technical officer was there to explain WHY Black Magic sails had been banned. I was in the background when one individual caused much waves over appendix Q. Why did the World Marblehead Championships run so smooth? Because it was run with a very uncomplicated Umpiring system.

In the past 2 years there was an opportunity for NCA's to propose rule changes and a ballot conducted for owners to vote on these changes. A very democratic process. Apart from this there has been very little technical traffic and the class has flourished especially here in Australia where fleet sizes continue to grow. The only problems I see stopping greater growth in the class is the lack of builders.

I will add that Lester was involved in the original hard work to get the class machinary in order. He made the tough decisions early and stood down in 2005.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth. I love this class don't get to sail as much as I would like 3 kids under 6 but I would hate to see the current direction of the class slew off course to a direction where everything is micromanaged.

Daniel Weizman

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Post by Andy Stevenson » 11 Aug 2007, 11:35

Andy you have been in the sport 2 minutes
I first sailed an RC yacht, following my father’s hobby, when I was a young teenager. Well over twenty years ago. I’ve been the IOMICA Secretary during the last term (2 years, not two minutes) because nobody else volunteered.
yet you believe you can solve all the problems of the world.
I don’t recall stating world peace or a cure for cancer was part of the role. I’ve made it clear what I think the problems are & what the ICA should be doing, I’ve yet to hear anyone disagree with that view.
In the past 2 years there was an opportunity for NCA's to propose rule changes and a ballot conducted for owners to vote on these changes. A very democratic process.
...that stumbled at the last hurdle when the joint RSD/IOMICA technical committee pointed out a flaw or two in the resolutions & declined to ratify them. The CR changes that were eventually ratified were not those passed by the IOMICA AGM.

A situation that we had an opportunity to learn from, as yet no discussion has taken place within the TSC, because there isn’t a TSC, to analyse the reasons why this happened and make recommendations for preventing it happening again.
Apart from this there has been very little technical traffic
Except, of course, the CR changes required to bring them in line with the updated ERS.
I would hate to see the current direction of the class slew off course to a direction where everything is micromanaged
The direction of the class is dictated by the owners, each NCA’s members are the ones in a position to alter, or not, the direction of the class. That’s the point of an ICA. My intention is to ensure that those directions translate into rules and regulations that accurately reflect that direction.

Personally I’d like that direction to maintain the principles of competitive longevity and cost effectiveness. However it’s not my call to make.

Daniel, I appreciate your views and can understand why you, and others, may be nervous about the incoming Exec. I have watched as the Vice Chairmen continued their inactivity; I have asked questions, offered suggestions and voiced concerns. Yet the Exec remains inactive while there’s work to do.

I felt the need to do something and have set about doing it. Frankly, those people unhappy with my running for the Chairmanship had plenty of opportunity to run for the post themselves, nobody else has.

Cheers
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

RoyL
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Post by RoyL » 11 Aug 2007, 20:43

Just to correct the record. There were a number of people Greg Willis could have found to be IOMICA Secretary. Andy did volunteer, but it was Greg who decided to give the newcomer from the UK his chance to serve. And to his credit, Andy lived up to the chance he was given and has worked hard and diligently in his positon as Secretary.

No one else has YET come forward to run for IOMICA Chairman because most of us assume Greg Willis will stand for a second term. If he does not, I believe part of the reason is because he is not willing to argue his obvious accomplishments with Andy. What is surprising and disappointing to me is how quickly Andy was ready to turn on Greg, the man who gave him his opportunity.

However, what is most surprising to me is that in his most recent post Andy stated that "the direction of the class is dictated by the owners". Seems to me that other than Andy (and I assume Lester Gilbert) I have not heard a single owner suggest dissatisfaction with the job done by the current Exec or a desire for a change in direction.

In the past three years not a single boat or piece of equipment has been ruled illegal or banned. A World Championship has been successfully organized. Class rule changes have been passed without rancor. Registered boats have increased and new NCAs have been added. There is not a single post on the IOMICA forum complaining about the actions of the Exec and as Vice Chairman of VC Technical I have not received a single communication of dissatisfaction. If this is failure, I would be very interested in what Andy defines as success.
Last edited by RoyL on 11 Aug 2007, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 11 Aug 2007, 21:22

Andy was ready to turn on Greg
I haven’t turned on anyone! I’m running for an Office that every registered owner has a right to. Please stop accusing me of such things, I find it offensive.
not a single boat or piece of equipment has been ruled illegal or banned
Strictly speaking they’re all illegal, having mast fittings that are made out of something. This was pointed out in the Exec & Public forums.
I have not received a single communication of dissatisfaction
Other than from me obviously. You have received a request to do something about the mast fittings issue, how do you intend to resolve it?
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

Jon Elmaleh
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Post by Jon Elmaleh » 12 Aug 2007, 04:28

Hi All
I have been sailing model sailboats for over 35 years so I think I have some prespective to add to people's thoughts. I have seen many people work very hard on the classes and sailing systems to make sure we get the most fun and pleasure from what we do. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Over time, the classes that run smoothly are classes without a lot of turmoil and politics and problems. The IOM class is currently an excellent class. It is strong and successful, thanks to a lot of people past and present. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. We sail to have fun, not to fight. I have to agree with Daniel and Roy on their view of the recent pass. I think that we all owe Greg Willis a big thank you for righting a sinking ship. I look forward to Greg's continued leadership and the continuing vitality of the IOM class.
Jon Elmaleh
Jon Elmaleh
Out There Technologies LLC

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 12 Aug 2007, 08:52

Hi Jon,
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.

My point though is that it is broken and the current Exec remains disinclined to fix it. I’ve laid out quite clearly why I think it’s broken and what I think needs to be done to fix it.

I’d very much welcome discussion on those issues.

Cheers
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

Brad Gibson
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Post by Brad Gibson » 12 Aug 2007, 11:30

Hi Andy,
My point though is that it is broken and the current Exec remains disinclined to fix it. I’ve laid out quite clearly why I think it’s broken and what I think needs to be done to fix it.
It could be said that not everyone agrees with your thoughts that the IOM class is broken.
I’d very much welcome discussion on those issues.


With your statements on where you believe the current IOMICA exec has failed to deliver, I would have thought that if the membership felt strongly about any of those issues that significant discussion would have shown up on this forum within the last 2 years.

From your blog:
Outstanding Issues

Sailmaker self-certification, water free measurement and Class Rule anomalies that remain unresolved. Other technical and measurement issues that while not necessarily requiring Interpretations or Class Rule changes, would certainly benefit from definitive advise from IOMICA.
1. Sailmaker Certification
Can someone please let me know why it is we need this so badly? Quite simple in my mind that if you need to get a hull measured for registration, get your sails done by the same person. I would say that most sailmakers of any size (those that would qualify for this), already know of, or have a local measurer on hand that will measure a suit for a customer should they wish them to be available as measured sails.
If this was something that was so badly needed, Sailmakers of any size would be banging IOMICA's door down. They are not.

2.Water free measurement
I agree this would speed up the event measurement process but unfortunately wont give a complete accuracy from differing designs.
2 years ago in Aus we used a dry measurement system to check depths through a wide range of hulls. It proved fast and efficient for a "quick check" of the fleet, but the differences in bow and stern profiles made it hard to be any more accurate than +/-8mm.
The only way i could see a dry system ever working would be in tandem with the tank system at the big events. i.e measure a given design in the tank, note its particulars on a dry frame, then gather all others of that design and if any anomilies show, put said questioned boat in tank for official check.
To bring in as fixed a dry measurement system would have designers pawing at ways to gain the most benefit from it. Some existing designs would be dissadvantaged by any dry method, depending on designed lwl.
Do we need the instability of a measurement change that could dissadvantage a huge percentage of registered boats. I think not.

3. Class Rule anomalies that remain unresolved
Please expand on this.

With the latest edition of IOMICA Class Rules, many items of a frivolous nature were cleared up. Yes RSD did require a tidy up of a couple of the IOMICA proposals, but net result is everyone did their job.
Hats off to the VC Technical for listening to the wishes of the sailors in rewording the mainsail luff attatchment method(with guidance from RSD), and for cleaning up other rules such as the jib leech line retainment method. Yes we can now use an elastic band :).
None of the recent changes were class threatening, though they showed that the current VC Technical were happy to listen to the members, and indeed RSD's concerns.
Developing the Class

Responding to the needs of IOM owners, providing a clear direction for the class based on the opinions of those owners and developing the Class Rules accordingly.

The Class Rules can be a subject of heated debate; I’ve heard quite a few voices telling me that the Class Rules are too complicated, difficult to understand and should be simplified. I’ve yet to hear one proposal outlining exactly what that simplification will entail, or even an overview of how it might work.

Personally, I’m of the opinion that while the class is, in essence, quite a simple formula, the Class Rules are necessarily complicated in order to maintain the principals of cost effectiveness and competitive longevity. I’m all for simplification, but not at the expense of rendering existing boats uncompetitive or significantly increasing costs.
I believe that the current IOMICA Executive have shared this view with you Andy, hence the only minor rule changes that were adapted.
It would seem that with a lack of Rules related conjecture on the Forum boards within the last 2 years that the members agree with the Class's direction.
Developing and Expanding International Events

IOMICA needs to find a formula for encouraging clubs to host International Events and work towards expanding the range of International Events, as well as encouraging national sailors to compete with aspirations of qualifying for International Events.
The previous IOMICA executive since 2003 have made the cost of hosting such events out of reach for many.
The 2003 IOM Worlds in Canada set the bar for expenditure on Umpiring and facilities that many venues simply cannot match, try as they may.
Umpiring systems in the 2 International events since Canada failed badly from my own point of view with seemingly no lessons learnt.

The Australian Organising Commitee for the 2005 Worlds saw an opportunity to ammend certain umpiring proceedures for improvement, but were met with a rejection on many accounts from IOMICA.
The commitee comprised of many Internationally experienced sailors, with many Radio and full size Championships to their credit.
I guess 2 of the above said commitee felt strongly enough about the running of IOMICA that they decided to make a stand, for what i believe has been for the good of the class.

Maybe future IOMICA guidelines for running a Championship could be looked at and comprised by those opinions of the sailors.
*Do we reduce fleet size to reduce cost?
or
*Do we start again and listen to the sailors on what they would prefer with regards to umpiring?
Daniel mentioned the recent M Class Worlds. A lot can be learned from the umpiring system there as it was in my mind the best system i have sailed with, for roughly half the entry fee.

The widely held opinion within those that i speak with at events here in the UK, those back home in Aus and many others abroad is that the class is currently in much better shape due to the lack of bickering and backbiting that had frequented these boards daily in years gone by.
This was the sort of garbage that turned many away from the class.

Andy, whilst you are to be commended for offering up your time to take on the Chairmanship of the IOM class, your condemnation of your fellow executive members is not good form, hence the reason some responses directed back your way. It would seem that history in how IOMICA has become what it is today is only now dawning on you.

Thank you to the current IOMICA Executive for returning the Class to that of being one for the sailors, not the rule makers. Stability was needed, and has been delivered, lets not go back.

Brad Gibson
AUS 42

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 12 Aug 2007, 14:29

Thank you Brad for some positive, constructive views.
It could be said that not everyone agrees with your thoughts that the IOM class is broken
Quite right, I am left with no doubt that not everyone agrees with me! I never expected they would.
3. Class Rule anomalies that remain unresolved
Please expand on this
I mentioned the materials for mast fittings issue earlier in this thread, that’s one. Another is the question posed some while ago regarding batten reinforcement at the leech of a mainsail.

There are also issues that might benefit from a definitive position from the TSC; un-enforceable rules such as specific aluminum grades for example.
your condemnation of your fellow executive members is not good form
Rather strong language I think, I have pointed out that I think the Exec hasn’t been sufficiently active and where I think activity should be focused. I’m also asking for the opportunity to chair the committee that directs that focus. Far from condemnation.
lets not go back
Indeed, but I think we need to put more effort in to going forward.
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

RoyL
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Post by RoyL » 12 Aug 2007, 18:19

Andy: You thank Brad Gibson for "some very positive constructive views." Yet those views are in virtually every case one hundred percent the opposite of the positions taken by you. Care to respond?

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 12 Aug 2007, 20:22

Hi Roy,
opposite of the positions taken by you
My intention isn’t to take a position on specific issues. I’m attempting to stimulate discussion on issues I feel are relevant.
Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

Dick Carver
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Post by Dick Carver » 12 Aug 2007, 21:16

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but work committments have kept me from following the class rules discussions as closely as I used to.

Andy, you state below:
Strictly speaking they’re all illegal, having mast fittings that are made out of something.
Could you explain this, or direct me to a thread that explains this in more detail ?

Thanks.

And thanks to Greg Willis and the current Exec. committee for volunteering your time to support the best R/C sailing class in the world.
Dick Carver

Andy Stevenson
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Post by Andy Stevenson » 12 Aug 2007, 22:47

Andy Stevenson
"A little pain never hurt anyone!" Sam, aged 11

RoyL
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Post by RoyL » 12 Aug 2007, 22:57

Dick: Thanks for the question. As VC Technical, I can tell you that there is no IOM Technical Ruling that has rendered mast fittings illegal.

You can find a discussion of mast fittings in the general IOMICA forum. It is largely between Lester Gilbert and Andy Stevenson and a few other class members. Any statement Andy is making about the illegality of all mast fittings is his personal opinion and not that of the IOM Exec.

To date not a single NCA has sought a formal technical interpretation regarding the legality of mast fittings. Further, there has been no request for interpretation or any discussion anywhere about "un-enforeable rules such as specific grades of aluminum" for masts.

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Post by Lester » 13 Aug 2007, 14:33

RoyL wrote:Further, there has been no [...] discussion anywhere about "un-enforeable rules such as specific grades of aluminum" for masts.
Hmmm... A quick search through the 'Class Rules' area of the forum, in the thread 'Proposed Class Rule Changes' turns up this post by Roy himself, for instance:
RoyL
Vice-chairman (Technical)
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 204
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:02 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[...]
A few simple examples:

Mast tubes of a higher strength and lower weight than specified by the rules can be readily purchased and would be undetectable in measurement.

A carbon fiber tube or shaft inserted into a very light weight and flexible aluminum mast would be impossible to find without pulling apart the mast.
[...]
Roy, and others, have repeatedly posted about un-enforceable class rules in a number of places, both in this Forum and in other forums. It seems it remains a 'hot' topic for the class.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Rob Davis
Posts:58
Joined:23 Nov 2003, 16:50
Sail number:USA 32
Club:TRYC
Design:Disco

Post by Rob Davis » 13 Aug 2007, 16:40

I wanted to weigh in on the discussion.

My sincerest thanks to all those who have served to make the IOM class what it is today. The class has come a long way and the time during Greg's chairmanship has gone quite quickly. I agree with Brad Gibson and many others in the sentiment related to managing the class.

So we're now in a nomination cycle and Lester once again appears quite interested in applying his management skills to craft the IOM class. He's running for more than one office representing a desire to have a seat at the table regardless of the position.

Greg, Roy, Bruce and others have stepped forward to assist in running the class. As they step aside, it's time for other prominent sailors to put their time into running the class. You will get a different perspective of the class.

If the sailors do nothing you'll get back what you put into the class. If you desire to have Lester in office do nothing. The organization of NCA's do have a voice. Figure out who can and will do the job and vote them into office.
Rob Davis
USA 232

Lester
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Post by Lester » 13 Aug 2007, 18:00

Hi Rob

Good of you to join in.
Rob Davis wrote:Lester once again appears quite interested in applying his management skills to craft the IOM class
Ah, not quite. If I wanted to apply what passes for my management skills, I'd be running for IOMICA Chairman, and I've had enough of that to last me the rest of my life, believe me. No, I was asked by Andy, whose management skills are way better than mine, to help out at committee level.
He's running for more than one office representing a desire to have a seat at the table regardless of the position
Ah, not quite either. I started off running for VC Events, when there were no other nominations, 'cos that's what Andy asked me to do. I didn't start out with any desire of any sort.

But let's be frank. I put myself forward for VC Technical when I saw that Roy had tossed his hat into the ring. It seemed to me that the class really does need someone who understands the technical side. I mean fairly simple things, actually, like understanding that it isn't the IOMICA Technical Committee which issues interpretations or rule changes. Like understanding that when the class rule says something you don't like or think is wrong, such as that the hull shall be made from plain simple glass fibre, a reasonable approach is to seek a rule change rather than seek a scapegoat for who first tried to deal with the fact that Texalium isn't plain simple glass fibre. But as I indicated earlier, I really will leave the management side to the Exec and the Chairman.
it's time for other prominent sailors to put their time into running the class. You will get a different perspective of the class. If you desire to have Lester in office do nothing. The organization of NCA's do have a voice. Figure out who can and will do the job and vote them into office.
Couldn't agree more. Heck, you don't even have to be a prominent sailor, just someone with an interest in and a willingness to learn how an International class works. I've love to lose an election to a better candidate who wanted to actually *do* something. Really.

And whoever wins the election, the committees will need volunteers to join them. An ideal place for IOM owners to get a better perspective and contribute their bit.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

Lester
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Re: Thank You Greg Willis

Post by Lester » 15 Aug 2007, 20:07

RoyL wrote:I thought a brief look back at where we were three years ago and an appreciation of how far forward we have moved under Greg Willis is in order.
Hi Roy

I've largely kept out of this thread until now, but have decided that your version of a history which suits your agenda needs a reality check, in case it confuses any readers who might be familiar with the facts.
the IOM Class on the eve of the Australlian World Championships was an organization in crisis and on the verge of falling apart
The IOM Class comprises the Owners, the World Council, and the Executive Committee. What you really mean to say, except it doesn't sound nearly as dramatic, is that the Exec was not functioning as well as it could, and was pretty pleased to get to the end of its term of office. The Class on the verge of falling apart? I don't think so.
The World Championship itself was on the brink of being cancelled
Not at all. There was absolutely no danger of that. There were many hard words exchanged, and a pointless threat of cancellation made, but that was simply gamesmanship on the part of an organising committee which hadn't realised that an IOM International Championship needed the approval of IOMICA, not RSD.
[...] due to a conflict between the Chairman of IOMICA and the organizsers of the race with IOMICA taking the position that unless its rules and dictates were accepted virtually without question
There certainly was a conflict. The organisers took the position that it was "their" championship and they could make up whatever rules they thought appropriate. They did not understand that in fact it was an IOMICA championship and that it was IOMICA rules that were to be used, not those of someone else.
The IOMICA Exec was running short handed because the representatives from both the United States and Canada had by their claim been ignored and put down to such a degree that they had quit.
The Exec certainly was short handed, but the reasons for the resignations that I was given were not those you seem to have heard.
The IOMICA Technical Committee had just completed issuing a series of rule "interpretations"
As you know perfectly well, the IOMICA Technical Committee does not and cannot issue rule interpretations.
[...] that among other things had caused the banning of all sails made by "Black Magic"
*All* Black Magic sails? Nonsense!

The joint RSD-IOMICA Committee which has responsibility for issuing official rule interpretations decided that the luff fittings on some of the Black Magic mainsails did not comply with the 10 mm rule.
the ban of "texallium" boats
Absolutely incorrect. What actually happened was that "Texalium boats" were made legal. Yes, check it out, the IOMICA Technical Committee recommended an emergency rule change to the Exec that Tex boats should be given dispensation. This emergency rule change granting dispensation was accepted by the Joint RSD-IOMICA Committee simutaneously with its issue of an official interpretation that found that Tex was not a permitted hull material. Part of the necessary horse trading in order to get this emergency rule change accepted was that the dispensation would not extend to International events (Continental or World Championships) after a date some years in the future.
and the sanctioning of the jib boom being swivelled from the bottom of the hull because the technical committee could not define the term "deck"
Eh? I thought this was meant to be a list of the bad and terrible things that happened while I was Chairman of the Exec, yet here is something that got sanctioned. Never mind. You've been VC Technical for some years now. Why haven't you had a go at rectifying this, er, wrong? Have you tried to define "deck" in a way that would stand up to critical scutiny? If not, have a go before you represent this decision as something outrageous.
Moreover, the Exec and the Technical Committee were proposing to ban the use of colored fiberglass tubes in any IOM which if passed would have banned all of Brad Gibson's "Disco" designs.
Not quite. A ban on coloured fibreglass would not have affected any boats already made. The proposal was for future boats. Brad made representations about his design which used black glass rods, and the proposal was shelved.
The IOMICA Forum however was very, very active. There were numerous post disputing the actions and policies of the IOMICA Exec and principally its chairman, Lester Gilbert.
Yes, you were particularly voiciferous as I recall. As you have rather nicely put it elsewhere, these posts were mainly you and a few others.
Lester dealt with these criticisims by often sending long, private emails to those who disagreed with his positions
Yes, I confess it, I engaged with people who offered criticism. They were long because it seemed there were matters of substance to deal with. They were private because one of my management tenents is, criticise in private, praise in public.
These emails usually contained veiled threats of sanctions if the posters continued to disagree with the Exec and its policies
Veiled threats? Sanctions? Nonsense. They may well have drawn attention to the consequences if agreement could not be found, in the same way that you draw attention to the harm these public disputes might do to the IOM Class.
For the Annual General Meeting itself, Lester Gilbert had apparently hand picked a successor, Anders Wallin, to succeed him as IOMICA Chairman and carry forward his policies
Apparently? Hand picked? I nominated Anders, certainly. You could take a report of the teddy bear's picnic and represent it as a sinister conspiracy to overthrow democratic values. So, you have been nominated to a second term as VC Technical by Greg Willis. This makes you, I suppose, Greg's apparently hand picked choice to carry forward his policies. I wouldn't have thought so.
The Exec had put together a package of rules changes
Nope. The Exec assembled together all of the already-approved rule changes arising from emergencies and interpretations, and offered them for ratification, as required by statute.
that included a ratification of the ban on texalium boats
The ratification was for continuing to give dispensation to Tex boats, not for ratifying their ban.
The Exec was also asking the class to accept its failure to collect required sanctioning fees from the organizers of the European Championship in Spain
Nope, the Exec prepared a resolution that IOMICA should accept the failure of the organizers to pay the required fees. Subtle, but different. In fact, the Exec chose to phrase the resolution in this way because it was confident that this was the best way of ensuring the required fees would be pursued and collected. And it worked.
All of the rules changes proposed by the Exec were rejected
Nope. All of the already-agreed rule changes failed to receive the necessary 67% ratification by the World Council.
the International Judges singled out Appendix Q, the on-water judging provisions written by Lester Gilbert as particularly ill advised and problematic
A very strong claim indeed. I would like to receive proof of this please, or politely request you withdraw this comment as publicly as you have made it.
Lester [...] went off to start his own class
Eh? I joined the International (now Classic) 'A' Class, and was invited to join a newly formed 'Phigit' Class by Charles Detriche and Graham Bantock. I didn't 'start' anything.
(Actually, Lester [...] resigned from his position on the Events sub-committee when he felt his proposals were not being adopted.)
Not the way I remember it. But I think this is something for Bruce to comment on, if he wishes to, and not you.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

RoyL
Posts:705
Joined:15 Dec 2003, 21:03

Post by RoyL » 15 Aug 2007, 21:36

We all see things differently. I stand by the account I wrote. For anyone who actually read and cares about any of this, all I can ask is that you re-read the posts by the many people below, remember how things used to be and then make up your own mind.

In retrospect, however, I regret that by listing all of the "bad" things that happened under the prior Exec, it might seem that I was trying to simply abuse one individual.

That was not my intent, my intent was to remind the Class of how far we have come under Greg Willis and to suggest that it would be a mistake to again take up the "proactive" leadership being proposed by Andy and Lester. To the extent that that message was lost or that I offended people I apologize.

Finally, although I can't speak for Greg Willis, I'd like to think that, yes, in fact his nomination of me is an endorsement of my continuing in the position of VC Technical.

As they say in the comic books, "'nuff said"....

Lester
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Post by Lester » 15 Aug 2007, 22:48

RoyL wrote:To the extent that that message was lost or that I offended people I apologize
Hi Roy

Thanks.
As they say in the comic books, "'nuff said"....
Erm, no, not quite.

There is one thing you said which is not a matter of opinion or point of view, and for which an apology is, unfortunately, not sufficient. It is this:
the International Judges singled out Appendix Q, the on-water judging provisions written by Lester Gilbert as particularly ill advised and problematic
I said earlier that this is a very strong claim indeed. Part of the reason for me pursuing this point is that I am an accredited GBR National Judge, active nationally, and with some standing in the International arena. You may be aware, for example, that a recent RYA case "RYA 2005/4" (interpretation), currently under consideration by ISAF, of the racing rules was based upon a submission I was involved in. If you look up this interpretation at
http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/5E74 ... nt2007.pdf
and then look at my Web site
http://www.onemetre.net/Race/RulesFAQ/RulesFAQ.htm#Q5
you will see the connection.

Part of a Judge's examinations and on-going re-appointment is that the Judge, and other Judges both National and International, must demonstrate appropriate behaviour in their roles. If a group of International Judge has criticised me, as you state, I must know about it, and I must do something about it. I must have proof of this. If a group of International Judges have not in fact criticsed me, then I politely request you withdraw this comment. At that point, 'nuff said'.

My professional competence as a Judge, and that of any Judge who criticises me, is involved here. Please consider your reply carefully.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

RoyL
Posts:705
Joined:15 Dec 2003, 21:03

Post by RoyL » 15 Aug 2007, 23:36

I guess this is my reward for trying to be gracious....

Lester
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Post by Lester » 16 Aug 2007, 11:48

Roy: You either have proof, or you do not. Please provide proper evidence, or withdraw your claim, since this otherwise could seem to be slanderous.
Lester Gilbert
http://www.onemetre.net/

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